transcript of the gmail chat with Athi-Patra Ruga for "the thud of a snowflake"

athi-patra:  cool , i can now on g chat, desktop is mine.

Sent at 10:03 AM on Tuesday

athi-patra:  shoot!

me:  oh, ok, cool...

let's start with the questions i sent... your name - Athi-Patra - please explain the origins
Sent at 10:04 AM on Tuesday

athi-patra:  Id rather not, it will spoil the mystery.

me:  hahahaha ok, so if i make stuff up about an obsession with the great dames of history - particularly controversial ones, e.g brenda, v-mash etc will i be on the right track?

Sent at 10:06 AM on Tuesday

athi-patra:  nah...but yeah. but dancehall queen Patra would be warmer.

me:  is it the sexuality that she exudes in her work that draws you to her? your work is very sexual or rather deals with themes around sexuality a lot

Sent at 10:08 AM on Tuesday

athi-patra:  well for she is from that longline of bad gals who messed with gender prescriptions , by using her sexuality.

and in a way this does lnk with my work , it revolves around the reclamation of the body from dictum/dicti
athi-patra:  for example my work deals with the animal that is a man. an how his body thru many reasons has been made to feel foreign to him.
patriachy, and religiopus references to the body ,

Sent at 10:13 AM on Tuesday

me:  now that you mention the substance of your work, i was reading the transcript of your interview with Ed Young, and in it you seem to imply that your performance work is purely self-indulgent and perhaps has no substance but is merely controversial (or camp as you put it) just so you can move the tapestries... am i correct in that understanding? or were you merely being facetious in that interview?

Sent at 10:15 AM on Tuesday

athi-patra:  yes the tone of the interview was very irreverent and there are moments that I ask myself "what is it for".

it's thankless work this art thang.
however , i think it is clear that irrverence is a tool in my work and that includes camp. these tend to get to the point more...the point being an accessible one...
me:  that Trojan Horse thing your talk about? hit them with that Will Ferrel "No one knows what it means. It's provocative! It' gets the people going." to facilitate the conversation?

Sent at 10:21 AM on Tuesday

athi-patra:  provocation works if you are gonna be dealing with a wall made up of staid notions of art.

i am highly aware of that.
Sent at 10:22 AM on Tuesday

me:  next question: who or what influences you and why?

Sent at 10:24 AM on Tuesday

athi-patra:  well TV is the ultimate inspiration. and also just physical expression from fashion to performance.

Sent at 10:27 AM on Tuesday

me:  you've been compared to Stephen Cohen, what are your thoughts on the obsession of the media and the public with comparing artists?

Sent at 10:29 AM on Tuesday

athi-patra:  stephen Cohen is an influence in my work , the first performance i ever saw in 2002 was Cohens chandalier in newtown. the comparison is an honor...however...

me:  however???

athi-patra:  sorry mali is late for his elle shoot...pandemone.

me:  oh dear... ok... you wanna take a break?

Sent at 10:36 AM on Tuesday

athi-patra:  however it is an exercise in lazy journalism to make such a basic copmarioson without engaging with the work and the longline of performance

artist dealing with the same issues.
francko b, leigh bowery , ron athey etc.
am back...
Sent at 10:41 AM on Tuesday

me:  do you think perhaps in your case it's because a lot of journo's find it difficult to review your work, so they resort to simple comparisons? or is it because the south african performance art scene is a little thin and so leads to simple comparisons to those most prominent?

Sent at 10:42 AM on Tuesday

athi-patra:  a bit of everything above . I am ambivalent of the "reviewer" , as it is reportage more than it is about engagement with the artwork. that could lead one to simpleness

athi-patra:  also, i do not think of the art scene as a local thing , i play in the international field along with many artists who are from south africa. And this requires our journos to think broader.

Sent at 10:47 AM on Tuesday

athi-patra:  is it tough to review my work? Then if so let it be about your experience and no convoluted qualifications on the work. do you get

Sent at 10:48 AM on Tuesday

me:  ok, next question: black families are notoriously conservative, your work is very provocative, what is your family's take on your work?

Sent at 10:50 AM on Tuesday

athi-patra:  My dad is really proud of the work . I do not find this surprising. when i was groing up I used to see my dad wearing my moms dressing gown. My mom use English Blazer at some point. they were very provocative lol...My family is like any other south africa family , we have this flabbagasting addiction to shock.

and also they think" As long as hes employed , askhathali."
me:  hahahahaha love it!

athi-patra:  but there's also something to be said about how they "come out" everytime a friend of theirs is exposed to the work.

me:  do you ever discuss your work in detail with your dad? besides being proud, does he have any criticisms or objections? i'm thinking particularly of Ilulwane - it's a very controversial subject amongst Xhosa men

Sent at 10:56 AM on Tuesday

athi-patra:  No , he's not concerned about the semantics or the language of art...Its another world to him. I have spoken around the table about the various projects and Ilulwane because of how it affected my family and still does , is seen a a necesarry thing to do by my folk.

i think that my dad equates artmaking with activism some times.
that puts presssure on me.
but the funny thing is after he started hearing and seeing my work...he still is expecting an album launch soon from his"performance artist son."
me:  kwaaaaaaaaa hahahahahahahaha well with the work you did with Spoek, who knows? you might find yourself in the studio one day... perhaps a compilation album from Uncle's Touch?

athi-patra:  hehehe , from your lips to gods ears...hehe.

why not
Sent at 11:04 AM on Tuesday

athi-patra:  however , the next instalment of ilulwane will continue the singing journey Im on.

me:  but back to your dad equating making art with activism: is your work not some form of activism? by your own admission your mission is to subvert the axioms of not only identity, but also the art world in itself? would you say this was influenced by your dad's take on your chosen field? or did you arrive at it independently?

Sent at 11:06 AM on Tuesday

athi-patra:  i grew up in a very conscientised time , politics have to be part of ones lifes work. The fight started a long time ago , and it continues with the art establishment and imagemaking in general.

everything i do is politikal.
me:  i thought you weren't in the habit of answering polotikal questions?

athi-patra:  well ... some can be very boring.

solicit the Jlo out of me...
ha
me:  would you say this is why you abandoned your fashion career in favour of creating art? i know the two can be interchangeable, but fashion has a more limited scope, wouldn't you say? or has that part of you not been abandoned entirely and we can hope to see a resurfacing of Just Nje?

Sent at 11:12 AM on Tuesday

athi-patra:  well all that happened was that I grew very frustrated with the transient apolitical nature of the industry ...this results in a narrow view that doesnt allow for one to interrogate real issue that are other than consumption...

Sent at 11:13 AM on Tuesday

athi-patra:  also I took fashion with me as a medium in my work...it's still a big influence. as for just nje. it was a great stepping stone to achieving this conversation about perception and how the history of image making and its effects have directed society to bot the good and the bad maybe...

me:  next question: would you say "fearless and intrepid" are apt descriptors of yourself and your work? you've done some daring things in places where the consequences could have been, and at times have been, dire? i'm talking now of your work in Dakar, Kinshasa, and Cape Town (i forget the character's name - but the Universal Church incident, and being at the Station taxi rank in a leotard at night)... or are you oblivious to those consequences when you execute your performances?

Sent at 11:19 AM on Tuesday

athi-patra:  the first and most important aspect of my performances are the character construct and the narative to be performaed. I like to think of describing myself as those words to take away from the fact that the context and how it translates into an image demand such actions.

beiruth
i used to not think of the consequences of my work , until Beiruth happened .
Sent at 11:24 AM on Tuesday

me:  has the Beiruth incident made you rethink performing in such public spaces, where you don't have the safety of the gallery and it's, assumedly, understanding attendees?

athi-patra:  i'll never stop performing in public...that's the politics around my core performance intervention , accessibility. How ever now there is this theatrical/scale dynamic that is very demanding ie: Ilulwane.

Sent at 11:27 AM on Tuesday

athi-patra:  where a public space becomes a stage and starts a story about . inclusion and exclusion. get me?

me:  yes, galleries can be a little foreboding to those who don't have previous experience attending them

speaking of scale: your performances get bigger and more ambitious, do you feel pressure to continue on that trajectory? is it sustainable?
athi-patra:  what? Growing Bigger?

me:  yes

athi-patra:  it's a non debate. i want to recreate and insert myself into these fantasy. and this requires scale.

...my dream work would probably be people coming into a stadium with pyrotechs and lights and a golden circle.
me:  like the rockstar that you are?

athi-patra:  the scale is maybe me soliciting a bigger audience , not based on academic art critisicm but a pure visual delight...that's a bit haunting.

like Arena Rock
no like the rockstar Ilulwane expects to be.
Sent at 11:40 AM on Tuesday

me:  i understand each of your characters is a kind of alter ego for you, and each one is "birthed", it lives and is then "killed off" - do they ever haunt you? or is there no afterlife for them? once it's dead, it's dead and can never be returned to life in another incarnation?

Sent at 11:42 AM on Tuesday

athi-patra:  one day I will show them . Funny Iluwane the performance is about that ascnsion to the other world. Ilulwane comes close to owning its own destiny by taking that task of killing characters...I think they exist all in the after life...like 

ilulwanes ancestors or stuff like.

it would be nice to have them in conversation...that idea haunts alot of late.
Miss Congo
Injibhabha
Beiruth
Ilulwane
me:  interesting... more of that grand ambition again... it really would be fascinating to see...

athi-patra:  ...it's a band actualy...sorry am flowing like.

hehehe
me:  hehehehehe i like the idea, and i cannot imagine how but i know you're the only person capable of pulling it off
you're very prolific for one so young, do you ever take a break?
or are you like a BEE artist, always thinking of the next tender even on holiday?
athi-patra:  the latter
also I just like what I do...it seeps into every aspect of my life , and that requires a lot of putting out.
me:  next question (penultimate): who is your greatest critic? i know you're ambivalent to "reviewers" but is there any opinion that shakes you?

athi-patra:  my partner for the spirit of my work and commercially my curator Ashleigh Mclean.

may regret that answer...

athi-patra:  on the crics vibe: Zolitha ...coz she has such lucidity and respect in her approach, and a coupla swear words. also I have found a great mentor in Jay Patha especially with the Ilulwane series...the first one was performed in a under his curatorship...the treadmill heels ilulwane

he midwifes and nurtures Ilulwane along with I like to think.
and Roselee Goldberg
me:  should i strike it?

athi-patra:  let's see.

we'll get back to it.
me:  cool
last question: what's next? i know you're taking Ilulwane to the arts fest, and then another performance in PE. what come after? or are you not there yet?
Sent at 11:53 AM on Tuesday

athi-patra:  pe is gonna be a cool large scale performance, with Ilulwane sans the swimmers but yet another kind of team. also taking stock of the growth so i am prepared to create another epic ,"The future white women of Azania."

Sent at 11:56 AM on Tuesday

me:  Future white women, is there a new character being developed for that? will you be making collectable work for that one?

athi-patra:  the whole thing is about consumption and aspiration and the demise of such .  So I am designing the project to shape shift into the different media that i am responsible for. Of course it's performance-based. but to be accessible to it will need these diff translations to reach erryone , so a print , video ,craft series etc.

me:  still dealing with body/sexuality politics or is there a shift this time?

Sent at 12:02 PM on Tuesday

athi-patra:  Oh yes! more with intimacy...It is set on a prison island .

companionship is the right word.
me:  hehehehehehe it's gonna ruffle feathers... can't wait!